needing you

I was at debating society this past week in the school where I teach. I should have perhaps kepy my gob shut, but I nevertheless agreed to take a stance supporting next weeks debate..."The Bible's view on Morality is right". You can tell I hope, that the title was contrued by a less-than-well-educated senior student, who just so happens to rest her reputation on the fact she is an Oxford debater. It means nothing really other than an elevated ego. Anyway, I have two minutes in which to lend support to the motion, and I would really appreciate your input...that means all of you! How would you tackle such a question. Long words appreciated, along with any cool apologetics that would make sense to younger audiences. The girl is an "atheist" per se, and I really feel that at 17 I could speak into her life. That at least is my motive. This takes place in a state school where faith in Jesus Christ rates below faith in the English Football Team...who got knocked out of the European Championships miserably. It all happens next Monday! TWO MINUTES!!


Blogger stu said...

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6/29/2004 7:57 PM  
Blogger stu said...

1. first off, your motive is wrong. if you aren't able to defend your version of the truth, instead using 'speaking into her life' tactics, then she may well hand you your ass. a good atheist can see this from a mile away. (i really shouldn't even be telling you this)

2. you should also be careful of circular reasoning. if she is keen to pick up on it, you are screwed as well. stick to cs lewisish explainations on morality. its good stuff for everyone, and you can use it to try to prove that is derivative from the bible only.

3. be prepared to explain why god kills people, especially his own son.

4. prepare to admit that you could be wrong and should perhaps consider at least becomming agnostic because, unless god shows up in person at that debate and actually TELLS everybody his book is moral, you might have a hard time proving anything.

i am of course being fecicious, but the real problem is the question you're debating ;)

6/29/2004 8:01 PM  
Blogger Roja said...

RS...I do not believe we have ever conversed, and so how you are able to comment on my motives intrigues me. My motives, regardless of your thoughts, stand. I do appreciate your contribution though. I am not on the journey to agnosticism, and nor am I looking to convert anyone. My world view is not likely to change in the course of the two minutes: my purposde is to speak for two minutes to an audience of teenagers; and if nothing else, to stir up questions that cause them to consider gospel truth.

6/30/2004 5:18 AM  
Blogger e said...

RS, you make me laugh precisely because I sympathize with your comments so frequently! Perhaps more frequently than I'd like to admit, 'specially when it concerns the motivations of Christian "apologists."

Rog, here's my ha'penny:
RS is right, you must talk to her because you believe your perspective is right and you care for her as a person, not because you want to "beat" her at something she proclaims to be good at. Humble yourself ahead of time lest she humble you further.

Also, like RS said, stick to the real horns of the dilemma: (1) Is there a moral code? (Lewis addresses this right at the beginning of Mere Christianity, (2) If "yes," then who determines it? If it is strictly utilitarian, then who speaks for the minority and the individual? (3) What are examples of a "moral code"? Are there any societies where a moral code was practiced? Are there any of these historical moral codes written down? (4) Examine these codes in their fullest expression. Are all of them based upon "Might makes Right"? Do any stick up for the minority and the oppressed? Do any move beyond the "eye for an eye" "return evil for evil" codes of the ancient middle east?

Or, you could jettison the whole idea and just walk up to the other debater and tell her you are going to take all of her money and kill her, since there is no moral code other than "Might makes Right." And when she protests ask her why she thinks you're wrong--what basis does she have for determining Right from Wrong.

Then again, just read Mere Christianity and go from there. You can't possibly answer that whole question in two minutes...unless you appeal to the whole football thing: there is a game and there are referees. The referees have to read a rule book and govern the game. And so on and so forth.

6/30/2004 9:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds very interesting! All I can say is that you just need to be prepared for the typical Atheist comment, and to be truthful in your feelings. About your school: you said you can feel connections with your pupils; is that a general comment, or one or two in particular? I myself am a new teahcer, and am wondering how close a teacher can feel to a pupil, educationally-wise. Good luck in the debate!

7/01/2004 12:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roja, you know who i am (i hope) this "less-than-well-educated senior student" of whom you speak is actually a far better debater than you are (or will ever be) the motion was created by Mrs Smith and refined by J. Lue so Jo is not a less than well educated student and get you facts right Roja, so there you go Mr Roja Owen!!!

7/29/2004 1:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hi. I am responding to the anonymous above's comment. While it is perfectly acceptable for him to have his own opinion, I think it only right that I put mine forward. I think he feels pressured, as we have never had a teacher like "Roja" before. I think he is great: he has made me feel better about myself, even in the little time he has been with us. He just has different views than everyone we are used to, which I embrace fully, but anonymous cant seem to understand that. Anonymous: give it a rest, ok? He's a good man, just accept him.

7/31/2004 1:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Replying to the above comment, yes "Roja" is quite a good teacher BUT I just wanted to make it quite sure that he knows, other people = other opinions. He must be the most single viewed person I have ever met. As Roja likes Chinese sayings i belive he should take this one into account...
beings that are forcefully vigorous simply age
this is called going against the Tao
to go against the Tao is to be DESTROYED!

8/01/2004 10:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think he knows that, somehow, as he is an understanding person. I do not want to argue, as this can never be resolved, as it is a conflict of opinions rather than just straight facts. But I dont think you could call him vigorous...

8/01/2004 2:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i know who you are!!! this isn't some 20th century battle field so i agree that this can't be resolved here or now. i hate him, you like him, why i will never knowbut that is your choice...

8/02/2004 11:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, I know that is my choice, and I stick by it. I cant see why you have all this hatred for him, he hasnt done anything but help us. You never gave him a chance. Be mature for once, and give him a chance. Just because he's different doesnt mean either one of you is wrong.

8/03/2004 6:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, both of u have a good point of view, yeah he's alrite but his teaching isnt as gd as it cud be (polite way of puttin it!). im sure he isnt even reading these comments btw so there is really no point in writing them! And neway dus it matta if was really that bad? hes not teaching us nemore so 4get about it! we had him 4 like a couple of months, that cudnt have dun that much damage 2 our education cud it ? But i understand one of u's point of view, his preaching about jesus christ and god all of the dam time dus get pretty annoying !!!

8/11/2004 3:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well firstly its not very nice ,anonymous 1 (Kieron), to write nasty things about someone on the internet and especially not if they are your temporary teacher because its pretty silly and OTT and he has always been nice to you and given u good marks and let u flirt with him as much as you want. I know that the only reason that you feel you have to be mean to him is because your in love with him and I think you shuld just tell him rather than do all this.

8/24/2004 7:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymous 1 here just wanted to tell Latest Poster that i don't fancy or love Roja, i just think he's a big headed idiot (obvoiously only my opinion, it's not worth much) i actually have a girl friend at present and she's very nice so i am not gay and i do not luv roja.

I know who u are!!!

8/25/2004 9:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


9/05/2004 3:25 PM  

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